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 Editing Corner

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Harpyeagle
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:47 am

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6NN1YCGL
(272 MB, 1024x768@32, 120FPS, 4 sec clip)
Bit rate: 1131050 kbps make sure your computer can handle it!

This is a raw file. Check it out. I love the smoothness and quality. See if you guys can render it with best possible quality.

ps. I uploaded it under 30 seconds. Very Happy

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cowking

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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:04 pm

The actual streaming quality is very dependant on where you upload your video to (and how you edit it). Youtube has much worse quality than xfire, I've always kept xfire as the best streaming video quality I've seen so far. Up until now though I've always had issues with xfire's sounds... I thought xfire is somehow restricted to 8 or 16-bit sounds because that's what basically every vid I've ever seen on xfire sounds like. Also I once tried uploading a video with 32-bit audio, it came out completely fkd on xfire. You could only hear these loud/silent buzzing trembles and shit. Today I tried 128-bit audio and it works flawlessly in xfire.

I remade my pargona vid to H.264 50-60 mbps 128-bit audio, uploaded on both xfire and youtube. Imo xfire is way more better quality especially on full screen. It just looks more crips and colors look better. Only have to test with a clip that has AA on so can't see those jagged edges on full screen. Only bad side is that for some reason it seems to load for quite some time on xfire.

http://www.xfire.com/video/238296/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGgVX9CID4g

I'll do the same with your heli clip in mom.

Fattie wrote:
the edited using vegas pro 9, rendered as an uncompressed AVI and then encoded by xfire and uploaded as a regular .avi->.mp4 file.

Btw that rapes sound quality If you let xfire do the encoding (the nintendo sounds I was talking about earlier).

Personally I do all editing straight in After Effects. Export as uncompressed AVI, load it up in premiere, use the premiere media encoder to encode it to H.264 (which comes out as an MP4 file), at w/e bitrate, and now obviously 128-bit sound.

You can then upload that file directly to xfire without having to let xfire do any encoding.

I will have to do some more extensive testing then I will try to make the best quality clip I can.


Last edited by cowking on Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:52 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:26 pm

Just to make it a bit more clear

xvid MPEG-4 codec = looks good on youtube. However, sounds disappear if I try to make it any higher than 16-bit. If this is uploaded on xfire, it will look/sound crap. The real benefit is lower file size compared to H.264.

H.264 = when uploaded to xfire with 128-bit sounds, probably best video quality you can get streaming. Loads very slow though. Looks good on youtube if bitrate is amped high enough.

---

Remember to watch in 720p & full screen.

xvid MPEG-4 (single pass, target quantizer 1.00) codec on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVJBKkBk5Ic

H.264 (100-200 mbps) on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGrHoCQ1egM

H.264 on xfire

http://www.xfire.com/video/237f42/
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:51 pm

To be perfectly honest, in terms of quality at any resolution we've had the most success with h.264 on xfire at a high FPS rate.

We will probably need to optimize youtube's quality preferably on 720p HD without losing too much quality going from 1024x768 to 1280x720
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Harpyeagle
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:41 pm

Fattie xfire has no future.

cowking wrote:
xvid MPEG-4 (single pass, target quantizer 1.00) codec on youtube

This is more crisp and detailed.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:12 pm

Yeah I realize we will be using YouTube for the final product but xfire seems to have a better stream for some reason. I do agree that xvid on YouTube looks the best so far though.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:08 pm



Those are probably the best standard mp4 settings on vegas,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWpu2noF0PA

1024 recorded, stretched to 1280x720 -> rendered as youtube settings.

recorded and rendered at 30 FPS.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:52 pm

How long does it take you guys to bounce these to .mp4? For about a 10 second test clip the ETA on render is about 30 mins? Doesn't seem right.

EDIT: It has gone done to about 10 minutes, still seems a big lengthy.
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Harpyeagle
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:31 pm

Depends on your processor and settings. With highest quality 10,000,000 bps (constant, single pass). A 4 min MP4 video took me around 5-6 mins. I have 64 Bit Windows 7 and 64 Bit Sony Vegas, i7 @ 4.00 Ghz w/ Hyper threading (8 cores). So yea I'm utilizing maximum computational power of my system.

Overclocking helps a lot specially if you are going OC 1Ghz+ from stock. I remember rendering at stock processor speeds and it would take 13-15 mins.

In your situatuon, what I would do is render in low quality for testing purposes and when everything is in place. You wanna render when you are going to bed or outside.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:47 pm

Do you compress your fraps recordings and then edit those together later on + render a final project...or do you just keep the raw clips until you've accumulated however many you want? I've not found anything to do this without taking a huge punch to quality (aside from vegas) but as I mentioned that takes quite a long time...

I dont want to trade 1 minute for every second of footage just to save some HD space...but with all of the stuff I have filling this up (heavy on music + music production, hogs a LOT of disk space) i'm not sure how many uncompressed fraps recordings I'll be able to store.

Guess I should've thrown in a bit more money on a better processor. pale
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:55 pm

The way I record frags is I have fraps open when playing warrock. When I think, I'm going to get kills, I start recroding. If I don't get a set of 3 kills in a row, I delete it right away.

I have a 160 GB HDD dedicated to store all recording stuff. Lets say I record a 8 minute clip and only 30 seconds of it is frag worthy. I go into After Effects / Sony Vegas and split the track to my desired 30 seconds, convert it into 16:9 aspect ratio and render it uncompresses @ 720p settings. This way you don't have to keep the useless 36 GB file. The rendered uncompressed file will be 2-3 GB, but it's much better and easier to work with for your project.

I'm not using Sony vegas to render uncompressed, it is giving me bunch of BS errors. Maybe its a 64 bit thing. But it's very powerful software. I'm using vegas and Audacity for audio editing, and adding the track in my video editor.

Last but not least, use Easy h264 v0.6r to render in best possible quality. Look it up, it's really easy to use.


ps. I tried Adobe Premier Pro, and I'm not a huge fan of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:21 pm

Thanks for the advice. The part about starting to record when you feel a kill spree would be ideal to do but I just record full games as you never know when something is going to happen.

I'll definitely use that rendering advice though. I've got ~300 gb free on a partition set aside for recording. Got another ~100gb of recordings from a lot of different games that still need to be sorted with. 300gb seems like a lot but you really go through it quickly recording full games. I guess I'll just go through every 2 games or so and chop it up like you said.

Another problem (recording related) is that fraps always likes to limit the size of my recordings and start a new one whenever it reaches that limit. Not a huge problem but it gets harder to organize clips and causes a temporary drop in FPS whenever it does that. Anyway around this?

Maybe I need to update my version of fraps or just manually stop/start again a few times a game.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:03 am

This guy's done some cool videos







Harpyeagle wrote:

ps. I tried Adobe Premier Pro, and I'm not a huge fan of it.

I hate it too, it's very clunky etc.. I only use it to render out the uncompressed, fully edited vid out from after effects. I don't do any actual editing in premiere cuz it sucks.

Easy H.264 thingy takes much less space etc.. but rendering out from premiere you get some extra control over the export settings. Probably very unnoticeable.
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Harpyeagle
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:50 am

I counted 11 Apaches in first video. How did he entered inside Chinook in Beringa. You think this Korean warrock?

---

Cow I'm having many problems lately.

Let me start of by saying this. I have a 2.61GB (2:22) Fraps video, 120fps, 48,000 KHz. If I edit it Sony Vegas 9.0 (x64) and save it as uncompressed file (AVI), final size is 46 GB. Windows Media Player 12 only plays audio, After Effects CS4, Easy H.264 v0.6r and MeGUI don't even recognize it, I can't even render it.

Then I went to After Effects and save the file as uncompressed file (AVI), final size is 32 GB. Windows Media Player plays both audio and video but video starts skipping frames after 5 seconds, maybe its because of high bit rate. Easy H.264 renders first 2235 frames and then its giving me errors. MeGUI renders video completely but my audio is 24 seconds short. My video duration is 2:22 and the audio is 1:58. I thought it might be due to 48,000 --> 41,000 KHz conversion but I have checked their forums and they were saying if you leave audio settings to default, it will adjust itself.

I ended up directly rendering 2.61 GB stock file with Easy H.264 without any editing, and that worked fine.

I'm on Windows 7 64-Bit. My codecs are all updated. I tried Lagarith lossless and HuffYUV. Lagarith is skipping frames during rendering, HuffYUV is rendering with motion blur, even though I have it turned off. I have K-Lite Codec Pack both 32 and 64 bit versions installed. I even tried H.264 via After effects and it gave me errors during rendering.

What I'm trying to do is crop stock footage, change aspect ratio and keeping the desired scene out of huge video; render (uncompressed or lossless) them as 720p so I can use them in After Effects later on, then render it as uncompressed again after compiling all sets of videos. I wasted 7 hours yesterday doing all this, and almost gave up. I feel like rendering everything as WMV 11 and fuck H.264. lol


Help me!
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Harpyeagle
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:02 pm

Anyways here is H.264 quality test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQBMnDhst_8



I swear YouTube degrades the quality of videos. The final render (113 MB) on my computer has much higher quality than YouTube 720p.

Anyways Assassin's Creed II, is a great game if you have intrests in Medieval ages, crusades, virtual reality and religion and assassins ofcourse. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:08 pm

Harpyeagle wrote:
I counted 11 Apaches in first video. How did he entered inside Chinook in Beringa. You think this Korean warrock?

Yea it's korean warrock since he can spin camera around vehicles. But idk if they really have that many apaches in the map. It could be done with green screening and texture editing (I think) but if so it's very well done.

Harpyeagle wrote:
Anyways here is H.264 quality test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQBMnDhst_8



I swear YouTube degrades the quality of videos. The final render (113 MB) on my computer has much higher quality than YouTube 720p.





But yeah you're right, youtube does lower the quality alot. I've been meaning to go ask on some youtube forums about what is the optimal format to upload on youtube to preserve original quality. Xfire doesn't but chokes on high bitrate/file size (idk which it is) footage, I'll try something tonight.

tbc
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Harpyeagle
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:32 pm

Yea Ubisoft... I need a constant internet connection to play Assassin's creed II. And your progress is saved on their servers. Did I mention it's only a SINGLEPLAYER game.

Anyways it was a sex scene (kinda) during the gameplay. lol


So how do you work on your videos? Do you render small files to save space and excessive clutter. Example if you have a 5:40 minute video and only 15 seconds is frag worthy. Do you keep working with whole 5:40 video or pre-render the 0:15 clip out of huge video? (pre-render it AVI uncompressed, lossless or quicktime, WMV. etc)

One my workflow is developed, I can start concentrating on my project. You and Video Copliot have been great help. I have learned so many good things.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:44 pm

Harpyeagle wrote:
So how do you work on your videos? Do you render small files to save space and excessive clutter. Example if you have a 5:40 minute video and only 15 seconds is frag worthy. Do you keep working with whole 5:40 video or pre-render the 0:15 clip out of huge video? (pre-render it AVI uncompressed, lossless or quicktime, WMV. etc)

I keep the full frap file without doing anything to it because I never record five minutes at a time. I start recording when I think something is about to happen (like rush at round start) etc.. and stop recording if I die or nothing cool has happened. When I'm dead I go delete the file or multiple files while waiting the round to end. I only keep really good footage, it has to be amazing or I delete it.

When I stop playing I go rename the files and do another pass if there's something not worth keeping. Also things like a stutter in a critical moment (you will instantly see this in game when you're recording) can ruin the clip so I delete it. One thing to keep in mind is to never press tab or map during recording, it looks ugly in the middle of a (otherwise) kill streak. Also probably a good idea to sort footage into different folders based on maps or something.

I'm gonna buy a 2nd 500 gig HD sometime in the future, so I don't have to worry about HD space really and so I can do 720p at high recording fps, hopefully while playing at 130 or so fps. Atm I don't even bother to make anything because I lack HD space and the 2nd HD.

Harpyeagle wrote:
Let me start of by saying this. I have a 2.61GB (2:22) Fraps video, 120fps, 48,000 KHz. If I edit it Sony Vegas 9.0 (x64) and save it as uncompressed file (AVI), final size is 46 GB. Windows Media Player 12 only plays audio, After Effects CS4, Easy H.264 v0.6r and MeGUI don't even recognize it, I can't even render it.

Is your recording FPS in fraps set to 120? Because the maximum recording fps you can do in fraps is 99 iirc (this is unrelated to your problem). I've tried recording with recording fps over 100, but the final file is always 99 FPS (right click the file and check properties), or check the file properties when you import it in vegas/AE. I never did try playing it back at 30 FPS though and compare against 99 fps footage played back at 30 fps though, in case it's just a windows display bug.


Last edited by cowking on Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:15 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:35 pm

Harpyeagle wrote:
Let me start of by saying this. I have a 2.61GB (2:22) Fraps video, 120fps, 48,000 KHz. If I edit it Sony Vegas 9.0 (x64) and save it as uncompressed file (AVI), final size is 46 GB. Windows Media Player 12 only plays audio, After Effects CS4, Easy H.264 v0.6r and MeGUI don't even recognize it, I can't even render it.

Don't worry if your 46 gig file doesn't play in WMP. The program just can't handle a 46 gig uncompressed file. Even something like 10 gig video causes the same on my comp. Massive frame lag and sound problems. When you render it out in H.264 it's gonna be smooth as butter.

The rendering however is obviously a problem.

Harpyeagle wrote:

Then I went to After Effects and save the file as uncompressed file (AVI), final size is 32 GB. Windows Media Player plays both audio and video but video starts skipping frames after 5 seconds, maybe its because of high bit rate. Easy H.264 renders first 2235 frames and then its giving me errors. MeGUI renders video completely but my audio is 24 seconds short. My video duration is 2:22 and the audio is 1:58. I thought it might be due to 48,000 --> 41,000 KHz conversion but I have checked their forums and they were saying if you leave audio settings to default, it will adjust itself.

How did you take the file through AE if the program doesn't recognize it? Or do you mean you edited it in AE instead of vegas this time, and saved the edited file through AE?

In this case, also don't worry about the uncompressed file playing like sht on windows media player, it can't handle files this big.

What is the composition frame rate of your video in after effects? <- this is important (composition->composition settings in AE)

Harpyeagle wrote:
I even tried H.264 via After effects and it gave me errors during rendering.

AE isn't really a render program afaik, it even gives me errors when I try H.264 no matter how small the clip.

Harpyeagle wrote:

What I'm trying to do is crop stock footage, change aspect ratio and keeping the desired scene out of huge video; render (uncompressed or lossless) them as 720p so I can use them in After Effects later on, then render it as uncompressed again after compiling all sets of videos. I wasted 7 hours yesterday doing all this, and almost gave up. I feel like rendering everything as WMV 11 and fuck H.264. lol

I know it's very frustrating when some very simple thing doesn't work. My source recorder broke, tried to fix it for like 12 hours, including three full steam installs and registry wipes, never got it working. Gave up.

I'll record a 2:30 fraps video tonight and see if I get any problems with it uncompressed @720p.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:41 pm

cowking wrote:
Is your recording FPS in fraps set to 120? Because the maximum recording fps you can do in fraps is 99 iirc (this is unrelated to your problem). I've tried recording with recording fps over 100, but the final file is always 99 FPS (right click the file and check properties), or check the file properties when you import it in vegas/AE. I never did try playing it back at 30 FPS though and compare against 99 fps footage played back at 30 fps though, in case it's just a windows display bug.
For me it's 120. I cant' go further than than. I tried setting it to 180 but final output is @ 120 FPS even with lock framerate check box unchecked. I'm using 3.1.2 Build: 11196.




cowking wrote:
Don't worry if your 46 gig file doesn't play in WMP. The program just can't handle a 46 gig uncompressed file. Even something like 10 gig video causes the same on my comp. Massive frame lag and sound problems. When you render it out in H.264 it's gonna be smooth as butter.

The rendering however is obviously a problem.
Yea I figured it out. I can put the 46 GB file in Vegas and it runs is perfectly in preview.

cowking wrote:
How did you take the file through AE if the program doesn't recognize it? Or do you mean you edited it in AE instead of vegas this time, and saved the edited file through AE?

In this case, also don't worry about the uncompressed file playing like sht on windows media player, it can't handle files this big.

What is the composition frame rate of your video in after effects? <- this is important (composition->composition settings in AE)
I rendered a new video from AE, uncompressed and file size was 32 GB. My composition FPS is 29.97. I figured this is the max YouTube will ever use, so why bother with 120FPS. (also some of my footage is in 100FPS) Previously I have rendered videos @ 100, 120, 60, 24 and 29.97 videos in Vegas (WMV) and they are about the same. So composition FPS shouldn't be a problem.


Btw. CS5 is out. It supports 64Bit. So you can add more ram and RAM previews would be faster. I'm thinking about upgrading it in few months. Only have 4GB ram atm, I need like 6 or 12 GB triple channel. DDR3 still expensive here.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:11 pm

Harpyeagle wrote:
For me it's 120. I cant' go further than than. I tried setting it to 180 but final output is @ 120 FPS even with lock framerate check box unchecked. I'm using 3.1.2 Build: 11196.

I wonder what decides the maximum recording fps. 120 would be a 4x slow-mo compared to 90 fps 3x slow. I'll have to try again with my newest version of fraps as when I tried it was ages ago.

Harpyeagle wrote:
I rendered a new video from AE, uncompressed and file size was 32 GB.

I recorded a 2 minute 30 second video at 30 fps recording speed @720p. The fraps footage ended up being 3 gig, and when I ran it through AE and saved as uncompressed, the final file size was only 11 gigs.

I ran the uncompressed file through Easy H.264 and got some errors and it ended up in failure.

Imported the 11 gig file into premiere without any problems and rendered it in H.264 without any problems.

I really wonder how my filesize can be this drastically lower? When you saved the fraps footage through AE as uncompressed avi, your composition size was 1280x720 right?

Also about the cropping thing, you can just bring in like 1680x1050 resolution footage into AE. Make a 1280x720 composition. Use the 1680x1050 footage in that 1280x720 composition. Then you can just move around (position) the 1680x1050 footage in the 1280x720 composition to "cut out" undesirable portions of the 1680x1050 footage. You can also scale the 1680x1050 if needed.

When you render out from AE, there is also a crop option the options, but I have never used it.

Harpyeagle wrote:
My composition FPS is 29.97. I figured this is the max YouTube will ever use, so why bother with 120FPS. (also some of my footage is in 100FPS) Previously I have rendered videos @ 100, 120, 60, 24 and 29.97 videos in Vegas (WMV) and they are about the same. So composition FPS shouldn't be a problem.

Rendering the final vid in 30 fps or 29.97 is a given. There is no use to render a video out at a higher fps.

The higher FPS in the source footage allows proper slow-mo because you can play back 120 fps file at 30 fps, compared to playing 90 fps footage at 30 fps.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:41 pm

Just tested, my recording fps is no longer limited to 99 either, so it must have been increased at some point.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:31 pm

The way he has so many apaches is theres type of maps called _dogfight where theres like 20 helicopters, it s a massive heli fight.
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PostSubject: Re: Editing Corner   Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:28 pm

if u did can u send me link

____________
interactive sex
doc johnson
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